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Day 1 Millert & Pov :Tumer 3 October 2023 Q. 2979 is the page. Now, Outsideness is 1 1 a Jewish woman and has Jewish children. 2 The statement itself is - I mean it almost 1 poor dim Jews who get disproportionately 2 the Twitter account of Nick Land, is it not, 3 turns on itself in a certain way because he is 2 shoah'd". The reference to "shoah'd", that is 3 somcone you followed? 4 saying. (a) antisemitism is Baroque. He is 3 a reference to the holocaust, is it not? 4 A. Mm hmm. 5 then claiming that that itself is a Jewish 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And this says, "Antisemitism is most 6 conspiracy, which is a very strange notion 5 Q. Is this an antisemitic series of statements 6 likely a Jewish conspiracy. Nobody else 7 and I don't know what you are really left 6 by Mr Land? 7 could make a political theory that Baroquc 8 with at the end of the statement to be honest. 7 A. I find it difficult again to interpret 8 sound plausible to people". 9 I don't think it's simple to say this is an 8 precisely what Nick Land is saying here. He 9 A. Mm. 10 antisemitic statement. I've never heard such 9 is a very ironic writer. He is a very ironic 10 Q. That was from 2015, so that is a view 11 a statement before. to be honest, I don't 10 writer. He is referring to elements in 11 expressed by another account that you 12 think this is the typical view of most people 11 discourse using complex rhetorical 12 follow, correct, which is, would you agree, 13 who would deseribe themselves as 12 techniques. I don't think he is saying these 13 antisemitic? 14 antisemites. 13 things in terms of his actual positions per se. 14 A. I think it's quite a complex statement 15 Q. Would you go forward, please, to tab 74? 14 he is referring to something. I don't really 15 which Nick Land is making here. 16 This is more tweeting bv Nick Land. This is 15 know what he is saving, to be honest. 16 Q. Is it antisemitic? 17 in 2016, He savs: "Fact. White subnormals 16 Q. Would you just please look back two 17 A. I think it's an ironic statement about - 18 are (ideologically) the niggers of the earth. 17 more page in this bundle, tab 76, page 2991? 18 first of all he says that antisemitism is a 19 Also fact: they're white subnormals (Jewy 18 Again, nothing has been disclosed by you in 19 Baroque theory. 20 machinations notwithstanding)." Then he 19 relation to vour interactions online with Mr 20 Q. Could you just answer the question? Is it 21 says,"Of course they get a bum rap. The 20 Land, so all we have are tweets by him and 21 antisemitic? 22 only people who will articulate that above the 21 on these two pages it actually starts, I think, 22 A. I don't think it's a simple question. 1 23 level of inchoate howl will be power-crazed 22 at the bottom of 2992. Again in the format 23 think this is a statement which has different 24 hucksters." Then he says, "Going out on a 23 we have seen before, these are all tweets 24 levels of meaning to it. It is also relevant, by 25 limb here. I'm going to gucss that it's the 24 where he has replied to vou. Do you see the 25 the wav, that Nick Land is himself married to 25 dex Miller and npedctv. These are 2016, Page 82 Page 81 Page 83 1 going to summarise how I interpret those and 1 A. In the second paragraph he again 1 Q. Well, he might do but racial ask you if you agree. They seem to show 2 reiterates his critigue of what he calls 2 identitarianism, which is the phrase that he that he docs not like what he calls the 3 ordinary racism and he says that in the future, 3 likes, envisages what he calls a conservation antiracist position taken bv mainstream 4 the genetic diversity of humanity is going to 4 of comparative genetic isolation. liberal democracies, in other words that all 5 increase, actually, because of technological 5 A. I am sorry, I am not sure where this is. 6 races are equal and none are superior. Do 6 advances. And then he goes on to explain 6 Q. Paragraph (g). This is an argument for 7 you see? He says, "This amounts to a 7 what he means by that. This is what he calls 7 treating races differently, is it not? 8 programme for global genetic pooling", in 8 "hyper racism". This is a phenomenon that is 8 A. I am not sure that he is advocating this as 9 paragraph 3, and he describes such a race 9 developing. It develops as a consequence of, 9 a position. I think he is describing a position 10 equal society as a homogenous intermixture. 10 for example, gene editing technology. It 10 which exists, 11 Is that a fair summary? 11 already exists in terms of assorted mating. 11 Q. If you turn over to 5482, in the middle 12 A. I don't know, to be honest. His first 12 Nick Land is a Darwinist. He does believe in 12 paragraph by the first hole punch, he says 13 statement suggests that he is - well, it rejects 13 the Darwinistic yiew of biology and he thinks 13 this: "The genetically self-filtering elite is 14 in a way what he describes as ordinary 14 that that extends to human beings as well. 14 not merely different - and becoming ever 15 racism. He says he doesn't find that 15 Q. And to race? 15 more different - it is explicitly superior 16 interesting. He concedes that there is - that 16 A. A race is a population group so, you 16 according to the established criteria that 17 races do exist and there are differences 17 know, it is true that human beings are 17 allocates social status." 18 between them and he savs that the politically 18 biological in some form. Darwin does not 18 A. Mm hmm. 19 incorrect position is more realistic than the 19 have a conception of inferior or superior 19 Q. These are just extreme racist ideas, are 20 politically correct position on this matter. 20 according to any kind of moral conception. 20 they not? 21 That's what I understand from the first 21 Q. Well, we are talking about Mr Land here 21 A. Well, he is talking about the existing elite 22 paragraph. 22 not Mr Darwin. 22 and its patterns of assorted mating. He is not 23 Q. And- 23 A. Well, Nick Land's positions are derived 23 necessarily identifving himself with the elite. 24 A. And- 24 from Darwin and Nick Land would define 24 It is the case that people in, for example, the 25 Q. Sory, go on. 25 himself as a Darwinist, I think. 25 upper class, tend to marry and have children Page 85 Page 86 Page 87 1 with other people in the upper class. Nick 2 Land thinks that that has a biological 3 dimension to it. He says, "superior according 4 to social status, This is his conception of 5 superiority. I think what Nick Land is 6 describing here is a reality that does exist. I 7 don't think that he is advocating for it as 8 extremist position, I think it is the case that 9 this is something which is happening in our 10 world, right now. 11 Q. Can we go back to the WhatsApp 12 messages at this point, I don't know, you 13 probably haven't got that open. Bundle 5, 14 131. It is page 3872, the page that we were 15 on before? 16 A. I'm sorry, what is the tab? 17 Q. Tab 131. 18 Q. And the page? 19 Q. Page 3872. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. So, just after the bit we looked at, where 22 325 you mention the book that you are working on, on Neoreaction and Mr Stokoe. In between the two hole punches, Ms Power says to you, "I think at some point we need to

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